Jamike ‘J.K.’ Emezi is an accomplished Executive Porn Addiction Reboot Coach with a track record of success in helping high-performing executives and entrepreneurs overcome their struggles with pornography addiction. As a Behavioral Specialist and Mindfulness Trained expert, J.K. provides bespoke and discreet coaching services to individuals who are seeking to overcome their addiction and reclaim their lives.

J.K. is a native of Wichita, USA, and has firsthand experience with the debilitating effects of pornography addiction. His addiction began at the young age of eight, and by the time he was 14, he was a “full blown porn addict,” which began to impact his social life and academic performance.

Despite the challenges he faced, J.K. was able to overcome his addiction through therapy, meditation, and significant life changes. He has now been living a fulfilling life free from pornography for over a decade and is passionate about helping others achieve the same success.

As the CEO of Elevated Recovery® and Porn Reboot™, J.K. is using his personal journey to make a positive impact and help individuals struggling with similar addictions achieve success. His evidence-based approach and specialized expertise in the field make him a sought-after coach for high-performing executives and entrepreneurs. J.K. understands the unique challenges that executives and entrepreneurs face and provides discreet and customized services to meet their specific needs.

J.K.’s mission is to empower individuals to break free from the chains of pornography addiction and achieve their full potential in life. He encourages anyone struggling with pornography addiction to seek professional help and take the necessary steps to reclaim their lives.

Transcript

Jon Dabach (00:02.475)
JK Emezi, how you doing?

J K Emezi (00:14.082)
Fantastic man, so glad to be on your podcast. I appreciate it.

Jon Dabach (00:18.367)
Yeah, welcome. You know, it’s to me it’s interesting what breaks a couple up, what external factors there are. As a porn addiction kind of specialist, I guess would you would you call yourself that? Is there another label that you would want to assign?

J K Emezi (00:35.846)
You know, there’s very few labels that people will take seriously. I remember when I started and I saw this porn addiction recovery coach, I was like, what is that? Did you just make that up? And now the pornography is so prevalent that anything goes. Uh, you can call me a porn reboot coach.

Jon Dabach (00:43.849)
Yeah.

Jon Dabach (00:50.355)
Okay. Porn reboot coach. Um, as, as someone who does that, you know, I’m sure you’ve seen more of it than me. Um, uh, you know, almost all couples that I see come in cause it’s either infidelity or they say communication. Those are kind of the two things that people say when they call, I over just haven’t come. Oh, there was somebody cheated. Those are the two things. And, um, one thing I found interesting is that people have very different definitions of infidelity.

J K Emezi (00:51.992)
Yes, sir.

J K Emezi (01:05.164)
Mm-hmm.

Jon Dabach (01:20.383)
And porn is on a spectrum there between liking Instagram, actually watching kind of classic pornography, like on the different websites that are easily accessible. Sometimes, you know, only fans where there’s, it’s porn, I call it porn plus where it’s like porn with like a possibility of some interaction or camming and stuff. Where do you find people come to see you the most? Where’s the…

Jon Dabach (01:49.039)
most typical traps for people to kind of fall into with the, where they realize they have an issue.

J K Emezi (01:58.374)
It falls across a broad spectrum. For the most part, it is men who are viewing pornography to the point that it is obsessive and it has begun to interfere with different aspects of their life. Um, a lot of men reach out for three main reasons. If you were just going to categorize it out of love, out of duty or out of fear. Um, and, and this is just to make it easier for your audience to understand, um, out of love usually happens when it’s, um, you actually really care for your partner and you realize that you’re hurting her.

J K Emezi (02:28.542)
Maybe you didn’t realize you would hurt her, but she found out about this spectrum you brought up, John, which is maybe she saw you following models on Instagram. She found out that you watched pornography, you left something in your browser history, and she’s very upset about it. And you don’t want the relationship to fall apart. For the first time ever, you are willing to take a closer look at your behavior and perhaps even redefine it. So that’s one reason that men show up.

J K Emezi (02:57.094)
duty is when I typically find this in men who have like 1.5 kids, they’ve had their first kid, they are heading to the second one. Very stressful, typically building your career transitioning into your side hustle. And you have this newfound sense of duty. You’re like, I need to succeed, succeed financially. But I also have another kid coming along and I am defining what it is to be a father who’s responsible and financially free. So there’s this sense of duty that comes with it.

J K Emezi (03:26.658)
This is not the father I imagine myself being. I cannot get stressed out and in the middle of the day, mentally check out and go to Pornhub and masturbate. And fear is often happens when your partner, your spouse has threatened divorce or separation, or you are at risk of being exposed, or maybe you’ve used your work laptop to act out, or you’ve watched material that the FBI agent that’s in your webcam.

J K Emezi (03:55.578)
might have freaked out about. And then fear is one of the things that prompts men. But for the most part, to generalize, it is a realization that your behavior is beginning to interfere with one of the major domains of your life, spiritual, financial, emotional, mental or social.

Jon Dabach (04:19.343)
I think that’s a really good definition because it’s, it’s different. It’s not like, Hey, he watches it once a day, three times a day. It’s what is it? How much is it to interfere with something else in your life? Is that right? Did I, did I get that right?

J K Emezi (04:34.366)
Absolutely. I think it’s very easy for us to both a man who feels he has a compulsive behavior, his partner, those around him to judge it by the number of times he engages in the behavior. But absolutely right. It’s you measure it by the impact it has. I have clients who watch pornography once every few months, but each time they do, it is a major binge. And they feel a hangover the next day and it’s weeks before they are able to get stimulated.

J K Emezi (05:03.766)
by their partner. So basically they have what they call sexual satiation where you’ve been overwhelmed by the intensity of virtual stimulation that being with your wife is not enough. She’s not multiple tabs. She’s not different ethnicities and shapes and sizes and novelty. She’s just this person who is very human, very real and not airbrushed. So we have that. And then we have the guys who, they’re just doing it every day. It’s…

J K Emezi (05:32.95)
middle of the day, super stressed, no coping strategies for high cortisol. So they rub one out, but they realize that the type of pornography that they need to watch is escalating in novelty. They find that they need more and more taboo material in order to experience that level of arousal. So it’s not a matter of how many times.

Jon Dabach (05:52.623)
Let me take it to another. Let me take it to another place. Let me ask you, I’ll kind of paint a scenario. Let’s say you have, uh, it kind of came into my practice. I’m kind of curious how you would, you would classify this. The guy masturbates every night using porn. It’s pretty tame porn. He doesn’t feel the need for it to escalate to more taboo material. Um, he’s able to focus at work. It doesn’t have anything. The wife is concerned.

J K Emezi (06:09.505)
Mm.

Jon Dabach (06:21.239)
just because she thinks that number’s high. Their sex life is fine though. So it’s really just one of those like, isn’t that a lot kind of questions, but he’s functional. Is that still an addiction?

J K Emezi (06:33.398)
It depends. It depends on what are some of the other effects that it’s having on his life. How’s the effects like?

Jon Dabach (06:41.271)
Let’s assume none for a second. Their sex life was great. Well, they no longer clients. Yeah. When I was working with them, their sex, they’re like, no, we still have sex twice a week for their age and their rhythm. That was fine. And I said, we’re both, are both you satisfied? Yeah. Are both you able to do what you need to do? Both are able to climax. There’s no resentment. Yeah. Yeah. But still, even after they had sex sometimes late at night, if he was working, it was a de-stressor or he was bored.

J K Emezi (06:45.301)
was.

J K Emezi (06:49.267)
Okay.

J K Emezi (06:54.605)
Yeah.

Jon Dabach (07:11.199)
or whatever it was, it became habitual. Um, but it didn’t have any negative impacts and it was like, Hmm, okay. Interesting. You know, so I’m kind of curious as a porn reboot specialist, you know, coach, what your take on something like that would be.

J K Emezi (07:26.762)
If that really is the case, then there isn’t a problem. I tell clients that, um, yeah, I think you were absolutely right as a professional. Yeah.

Jon Dabach (07:30.435)
Right. That was my take. That was my take. I was like, all right. I mean, if it’s not hurting anything and your sex life is good, who cares? You know, just be hyper aware if something does change, you know, like if you start saying, Oh, I need weird porn and they know like, or, you know, that’s, that’s where it gets really iffy. Cause you’re, you’re just every day, there’s a lot of opportunity for it to go off the rails, you know? Yeah.

J K Emezi (07:41.298)
Exactly.

J K Emezi (07:54.614)
This is true. This is absolutely true. We don’t demonize your sexuality or your use of pornography. It’s only if it’s damaging to you. And at the end of the day, people’s lives are, sexual lives are a private thing. So yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, which is your conclusion with that couple.

Jon Dabach (08:03.427)
Yeah.

Jon Dabach (08:11.699)
Yeah. Okay. I’m glad I was like, Hmm. I wonder, I was nervous. Like did I do something wrong? And cause it is, it’s such a tricky total line. I mean, listen, they were, they were with me for a little while and they were totally fine. But, um, but yeah, I think some of that was also just stigma. Um, which, which you have to kind of define the line, but I think I love your definition. It’s like something, and this is where you see like the more, more people need a

J K Emezi (08:14.9)
You did a good job.

J K Emezi (08:18.294)
Nah.

Jon Dabach (08:38.287)
stronger definition of what addiction is. And I loved yours. It’s like when it starts affecting other areas of your life negatively, that’s an addiction, right? It could be your health. It could be your mental health. It could be your emotional. It could be the health of your relationship. It could be your work, but when it has that negative impact, that’s in it and you still do it and you can’t control it. That’s an addiction.

J K Emezi (08:59.782)
Absolutely. Yeah, when there’s that persistent failure to control it, and it is something that is impulsive and continues over a long period of time, those are the signs that it is something that’s compulsive and addictive in nature.

Jon Dabach (09:17.047)
Yeah, let’s talk about how the role of a relationship can be a challenge or even be a point of strength through an addiction recovery like this.

J K Emezi (09:32.926)
Absolutely. Is there something specific you’d like to know? I’m only asking because you work with with couples so much. I’m sure that there’s so many ways you could go with it.

Jon Dabach (09:39.895)
I think so. So I mean, not I wanted to know like broadly, but I, if we want to put some context on it, I’ll give it another example. So like, let’s say someone does have an addiction and I’m thinking of one, one instance where, and there were many, but there’s one couple where it was like an only fans addiction. And so the wife felt a certain amount of betrayal because

Jon Dabach (10:04.311)
You know, on only fans, I’ve never been on the platform, but apparently there’s, there is communication so you can request photos and, and there, it seems a little bit more of an intrusion than an anonymous porn site, like a porn hub, like you mentioned. And so the wife felt a sense of betrayal, even labeling labeling it in fidelity. And the husband was still struggling, but you know, it’s there, there was a getting through that resentment. How do you kind of help?

Jon Dabach (10:32.407)
Tell him how to react with his partner. How do you, how do you kind of show that it is something they can go over? Um, and what’s, you know, working with the person on an individual level, which I rarely do, you know, what’s, what kind of advice would you give someone in that type of situation?

J K Emezi (10:48.526)
The first thing I would do would be to address the partner’s betrayal. Because if there’s one thing that’s going to destroy that relationship, it is the unresolved betrayal. As you’ve probably already noticed, any time that a partner feels betrayed, it quickly becomes complex and irrational because the female partner, let’s generalize and use that as the context for this, is having a lot of a past trauma from being lied to in past relationships.

J K Emezi (11:18.302)
A lot of that is coming up, a lot of issues that have to do with jealousy and her jealousy templates if you want to call it that is brought up. And now her unsuspecting partner is bearing the brunt of years of this betrayal trauma. So I would always say that needs to be worked on first. The second thing would be the communication between the partner who is viewing pornography and the betrayed spouse or the spouse who’s feeling betrayed.

J K Emezi (11:46.322)
A lot of it, I tell the partners not about the male partner. Let’s say in this case, it’s not about apologizing. It’s really about acknowledging the way that their partner feels. What would be a second approach to this? It’s about acknowledging how their partner feels.

J K Emezi (12:11.582)
I would say the most important thing is addressing the betrayal aspect of it. When it comes to only fans, however, I feel the partner in most cases is justified because the difference between only fans and a site like porn hub or any other site is that the partner is seeking intimacy. That’s where the problem lies. I feel educating the male partner who’s using only fans about the reality of only fans really takes away a lot of the earlier.

J K Emezi (12:56.514)
that that site has. Firstly, when they realize that it is marketing. For a lot of the top only fans, girls, they are not managing their accounts. So they also, just as you asked me about group coaching and stuff like that, they are people in the Philippines and Bangladesh who have templates and are responding to these men once the women reach a certain level. But the reality is the man is seeking intimacy. And if he cannot find intimacy within his committed relationship.

J K Emezi (13:25.294)
then there’s an intimacy issue there. And that’s what you would probably start working with with the couple.

Jon Dabach (13:30.563)
Yeah, very often what I find, and I guess we can compare notes here is, uh, when I’m dealing with someone who is in that phase of building their career or building their kind of mini empire, um, the lack of intimacy has come really from a sense of their lack of boundaries of how much they work. And so the porn or the only fans or the Instagram following and DMing is because they’re working 10 or 12 hour days and

Jon Dabach (13:58.499)
There is no time for that intimacy with their wife, but obviously they’re human and they want to feel some kind of connection. And so that’s where it starts to kind of get complicated. And then that becomes a deep sense of rejection for their partner because they’re like, if you just came home and spent an hour or two with me, like you can have the real thing and they’re, and they just can’t seem to unplug.

J K Emezi (14:20.63)
No, that is such a great observation, John. I actually never thought of that. I never thought of that. We teach our clients to put aside time to spend with their, with their partners every day and to understand their love language and so on, but I never connected the hours that they worked with, um, a diminished sense of intimacy with their partner, that’s definitely something I’m going to look into.

Jon Dabach (14:35.896)
Yeah.

Jon Dabach (14:47.135)
Yeah, I mean, I, I, I will say that the first thing that I do, if it’s any help to you, but like the first thing I do with my couples and almost every session is get a timeline of like what their day looks like. And I, and often, especially if they’re young parents, the first thing I’ll notice is your bedtime is the kids bedtime. When do you have time for each other? And they’ll say we don’t. And I’m like, well, there’s the biggest problem, you know, move the bedtime up a little.

J K Emezi (14:53.547)
Yeah.

Jon Dabach (15:12.119)
or stay up a little later or go to work a little, don’t wake up at four o’clock in the morning, wake up at five. I mean, there’s so many things that you could do to adjust that, but yeah, I mean, that lack of time is such a killer. It’s such a killer because now men have to figure out, okay, well, now I gotta squeeze in my physical needs into this 40 second bathroom break, and that’s a little too much to ask of any wife. So it’s like, all right.

Jon Dabach (15:41.143)
but I know I can rely on a couple things on my phone and, and if I only have 40 seconds, I got to go to the most extreme porn that I know will work for me. And so that, you know, it becomes really kind of crazy.

J K Emezi (15:53.198)
Absolutely. I will add, John, that’s actually very helpful with the structure and the timeline. I will add that I rarely find a case where a man has a problem with OnlyFans where pornography did not come prior to it. Pornography, pretty much, it’s a funnel to OnlyFans. Very rare does a man go straight to OnlyFans. Yeah.

Jon Dabach (16:07.57)
So that’s like a gateway drug of sorts. Yeah.

Jon Dabach (16:12.875)
It’s there.

Jon Dabach (16:15.375)
That’s a good point. That’s a good point. Does Instagram play into your world at much? I mean, I’ve had, I’ve had some wives have some real issues with men kind of sliding into girls DMS. And these are men that don’t typically use porn that much or the wives are okay with porn. And I think that it’s, it’s the same thing, right? There’s that search for intimacy because these are real quote unquote, real women. Most of the time they’re not either, you know, but, but at least in their mind on a surface level, they are.

J K Emezi (16:40.349)
Yeah

J K Emezi (16:43.082)
Absolutely. Good question. One of the first things we focus on is men’s environment. And when it comes to environment, it’s not just their home and work. It’s also what they’re doing online. Instagram is a very heavy boundary that we set with our clients in the early stages of their reboots. Um, Instagram is more or less a dating app. Um, every social media platform goes through different stages and there’s Instagram is at that.

J K Emezi (17:07.934)
nasty stage towards the end of its lifespan, where so many people are using it. And we also have to look at it from a sociological perspective. Men who would typically never have access to these women feel that it’s very easy to meet these women. And so the barrier to entry of a DM is very low, which is why I don’t blame the women for also having the OnlyFans link in their profile, because they quickly realize, oh,

J K Emezi (17:34.838)
these men who I would typically not find attractive have such easy access to me, well, I need to switch that up. And so society is changing in our sexual marketplace behavior. And this is one of the ways, but Instagram is a big problem. Most men, once they get on Instagram, they might get on there for entertainment, motivation, but what matters is that they’re looking for a hit of dopamine. They’re looking for some sort of endorphin rush.

J K Emezi (18:03.09)
And if you already predisposed neurologically to seek some sort of stimuli that ends in orgasm, you’re going to move towards the women in bikinis. You’re going to progressively go towards things that will cause you to slip or relapse.

Jon Dabach (18:18.615)
Yeah. And I think one thing that’s super, you talked about the, you know, the, how easy it is to slide into the DMS, like the entry point, the barrier of entry. And I think one thing that women don’t understand is how sensitive to, um, rejection and the feeling of being desired in your relationship as a man. Um, you know, women, it’s just a taboo subject. Men can’t complain that they don’t feel desired in most, they just don’t think that they can communicate that.

Jon Dabach (18:47.183)
but it’s connected to the sense of rejection. So if you text somebody or send a DM over the chance of rejection, feeling that sting is so small. It’s like, all right, they didn’t reply. Right. It’s like, who cares? I can DM 17 other girls in 15 seconds. You know, they just copy paste the same message even. So it’s, it, but that’s, that’s also something that kind of feeds into it as well. Um,

J K Emezi (19:10.282)
Certainly. I think the financial part is something that germinates or rather sprouts at some point during that. You said that, and correct me if I’m wrong, I’m paraphrasing here. You said that men are not used to, was it communicating, rejection or desire? There was a way you said it.

Jon Dabach (19:29.619)
Yeah, desire. Yeah, the lack of desire is something that men just won’t talk about. Because, you know, it’s like, I don’t feel wanted. It’s hard for a man to admit that.

J K Emezi (19:40.718)
Absolutely. I love that you brought that up. I also think in this culture when men are not thought how to feel desired, especially when they get into a relationship and their priorities change, they begin to lean on the one thing they feel society values them on, which is their financial status. And thus they feel that money is going to get them that feeling of desire. This is what OnlyFans feeds off. This is what

J K Emezi (20:06.466)
the rise in sugar dating and sugar babies and sugaring and all this stuff, this is where it comes from. I actually think it’s not going to stop. I think that, I think this is going to become an accepted thing, societally, and nobody thought OnlyFans would be as accepted as it is today. It’s still a little bit taboo, but people just talk about it very casually. One of the…

Jon Dabach (20:25.635)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s more, it’s more accepted to talk about only fans than it is Pornhub because it’s like, it’s, it’s one of those things where it’s like, well, what do you do on only and people are making money and it’s new and interesting and it doesn’t fit that classic porn mold. Cause it’s like, maybe they’re just talking and it’s like, well, nobody really is, but like, it’s just,

J K Emezi (20:47.894)
We know what you’re doing. Yeah.

Jon Dabach (20:49.127)
Yeah, but it’s just it’s for some reason I think even amongst the corporate circles, I’ve noticed people are more comfortable talking about that than they are, you know, the kind of the more passive pornography.

J K Emezi (21:01.35)
Absolutely. This is one of the reasons why when it comes to rebooting, we don’t just focus on the man ending his out of control behavior, we focus on him finally changing his self image. And that only happens when you define what you want to feel like and look like and what desire is to you and what intimacy ultimately looks like once you’ve regained control. I think too many people approach it as just, I just want to change a habit.

J K Emezi (21:30.102)
If it was just a bad habit, they wouldn’t end up with their wives talking to you, John, and their wives wouldn’t be looking to leave them.

Jon Dabach (21:34.507)
Yeah. Yeah, that’s very true. I want to go over some cause I’m not, I’m not in this world as much, but I feel like there’s a lot of mixed messages depending on where you get your information. Where do you find the most dangerous misinformation is, or not? Where do you find it? But what do you think? Like some of the biggest myths or some of the biggest, you know, lies about porn addiction are.

Jon Dabach (22:02.907)
and let’s kind of dispel some of those myths right now so that people can get some clarity.

J K Emezi (22:08.83)
Absolutely. The first one is that you cannot get addicted to pornography. I was a porn addict myself for many years. I was the one who gave myself the label of an addict because prior to that, I tried to treat it like a habit. The reason why it is a myth is because most of us view addiction as something that is substance based. For my typical clients.

J K Emezi (22:34.786)
Let’s say they’re a C-suite executive, the image of an addict is someone who’s on the streets making absolutely bad decisions with their money and so on. But pornography addiction is not a substance addiction, it is a process or behavioral addiction. So while it starts with you hoping to get orgasm, as you require more and more dopamine to get to that point, you start becoming addicted to another aspect of the process. It could be some part of your ritual, the taboo nature.

J K Emezi (23:04.014)
the fact that you may get caught, the type of pornography you watch. And this is the reason why men spend an inordinate amount of time on it. This is the reason why they have multiple tabs open. You’re not just chasing the orgasm, you’re chasing the feeling, and you need to watch more and more novel material in order to get that dopamine hit. So that’s the first myth, that it’s not an addiction. We like to say that…

J K Emezi (23:29.854)
Anyone who doesn’t believe it’s an addiction should just try to stop for 30 days. No masturbation, no pornography and see what happens. That would be the first one. The second one is that it doesn’t harm anyone, that it’s just pornography and all the women are doing it consensually. Um, pornography has directly contributed to human trafficking. It’s in fact, is one of the biggest contributors to it. And a lot of, uh, a lot of vulnerable populations are impacted by it.

J K Emezi (23:59.858)
A lot of people are making money off it, and there’s a whole new sex trafficking industry that’s based on OnlyFans. When a man approaches a woman and says, hey, I will manage your OnlyFans for you because I’m a marketer, I know how to do it, and he makes some money, eventually he has to recruit more women. There’s a very fine line there, and I don’t wanna get into any triggering material, but women end up being trafficked and end up being pimped on OnlyFans. And men make money this way.

Jon Dabach (24:13.783)
Thank you.

Jon Dabach (24:18.575)
Thank you. Okay.

J K Emezi (24:27.606)
The same is done with Pornhub and a lot of webcam sites are pretty much women who are trafficked. That would be one of the second myths. Probably one of the biggest ones is the fact that men believing that they can end this compulsive behavior on their own. It is, there’s a lot of shame and there’s a lot of guilt attached to this behavior. And a lot of men believe that, you know what, this is just porn. I was masturbating when I was 13, 14 years old.

Jon Dabach (24:52.975)
It’s a man. It is a man. It is a man. It is a man. It is a man. It is a man. It is a man.

J K Emezi (24:57.042)
I can stop on my own. So they keep trying, they keep failing, and there’s a lot of cognitive dissonance that comes up, but your ego won’t let you seek help for this. Like there’s no way I’m gonna sit down and tell a therapist that I cannot keep my hands off my penis. Unfortunately, this keeps men stuck to the point that it’s too late. And it is heartbreaking to have somebody come in, the worst…

Jon Dabach (25:16.975)
Thanks, guys. Thanks for coming out. Thanks for having me.

Jon Dabach (25:21.163)
And we will come back.

J K Emezi (25:26.146)
The worst scenario was when this client came to me because he had a problem with pornography and it had escalated to the point that he was viewing transgender individuals. That was his addiction. That was the genre he was addicted to. One day he’s working from home. This is during the pandemic, viewing that sort of pornography, wife comes home with their daughter who’s about three, four years old. Um, and she calls out to him to come help her get something from the garage.

Jon Dabach (25:39.799)
No.

Jon Dabach (25:53.598)
All those things are against the law. So it’s really, yeah. But it’s not the law. It opens the laptop. Yeah.

J K Emezi (25:55.786)
So he goes in and he closes his laptop. Well, his daughter, baby girl watches a show on the laptop. So she runs in because she’s so excited and TV’s off. So she runs in, she opens it. And he and his wife walk into the daughter screaming at what she sees. He lost pretty much everything by the time he came to me. And I said, I asked him, I was like, you knew this was a problem. You knew the risk. You knew it was escalating.

Jon Dabach (26:14.011)
Thank you.

J K Emezi (26:25.314)
why didn’t you seek help? And he honestly thought he could end it on his own. He truly believed it. It never crossed his mind that there was anybody who could support him. They were already in couples counseling. He was like, there’s no reason to tell the therapist, I don’t think they can help me. I can take care of this part of it on my own. And this is due to the myth that it’s not a serious issue.

Jon Dabach (26:43.695)
Sure.

Jon Dabach (26:48.331)
Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s, yeah, that’s a, that’s a good point. And it is, it’s one of those things. I think two things, one, sexual issues do carry a lot of shame. And there’s that, there’s that idea of shame that is, it’s very hard to cope to cause that admitting you have that issue first, more so than an alcoholic, more so than a drug addict. It’s one of those personal private things that

Jon Dabach (27:14.519)
You know, is it does carry that weight to it. And then the second thing I think is that, that we’d be remiss and not discussing is the sheer accessibility. I mean, I remember at least when I was a kid, not that I’m that old, but you know, it’s like you, you had to like copy a whole brick of a VHS tape and sneak it off to a friend in a brown paper bag that it was, you know, and it was like, it was, there was a ritual in accessing the porn. Now it’s like, I have kids and I’m scared to let them have their own phone.

J K Emezi (27:34.371)
Yeah, it is.

Jon Dabach (27:44.643)
Cause it’s like, Oh, this is just always there. All you know, and I know a lot of people in different religious communities where it’s, it’s rampant there where it never was 25 years ago, 30 years ago, because the accessibility is just so it’s, it’s propagated every corner of the earth at this point and it’s, and it’s free and it’s easy. And so it’s like, you know, there’s that, the shame of obtaining the pornography is gone.

Jon Dabach (28:14.335)
And so now you’re left with just the shame of actually becoming addicted to it.

J K Emezi (28:19.822)
Absolutely. To add to the accessibility, we should also add that you can access it anonymously. In the past, you had to be seen getting the VHS. If we were to go even further back, traveling across town to get the magazine, now you could be all going to a theater. There you go.

Jon Dabach (28:27.543)
Yeah.

Jon Dabach (28:35.531)
or going to a theater where there’s other people or going to the rental store and like going through those beaded curtains, you know, I mean, like that was the thing. Yeah.

J K Emezi (28:43.973)
Yep, yeah. Now kids could be sitting right in front of their parents and there’s pornography on their phones and no one would know.

Jon Dabach (28:51.819)
Yeah, yeah. If someone is struggling and wants to work directly with you and your team, your website is probably the best way for them to kind of get in touch. Is that right?

J K Emezi (29:04.542)
Absolutely. It would be elevated recovery.org. However, I would recommend that before you get in touch with us, you educate yourself a little bit. We have, we got lots of people visiting our websites, but one of the things I wanted to mention is that that shame and that guilt really gets triggered for a lot of men when they visit the website or women when they visit the website for their women actually don’t have a problem. I’ll take that back. Most of the people who apply are women applying on behalf of their husbands.

Jon Dabach (29:20.388)
Thanks.

J K Emezi (29:33.75)
Before you do that, I would highly recommend you send him to our podcast. It’s the porn reboot podcast, or you send them to the porn reboot YouTube channel. Um, you can just, just Google us and you’ll find, you’ll find us there. Um, and educate yourself a little bit about the issue. We have a lot of people who actually gain a certain measure of control just from using our free resources. And then when you’re ready to speak to someone, check out elevated recovery.org.

Jon Dabach (29:33.775)
Okay.

Jon Dabach (30:02.799)
JKamazy, thank you so much for being on the podcast. It was an education to say the least and keep doing the great work you’re doing and spreading some clarity on the issue because it is a very cloudy space and it’s nice to have someone who has such a sharp position that speaks with such great articulation on the subject.

J K Emezi (30:24.394)
I appreciate it, John. Thank you for having me.

Jon Dabach (30:26.659)
Thank you.