Special Guest: Kimberley Healey

Kimberley is an Ivy league PhD (French Literature) turned sex, love and intimacy coach for people who find it perplexing to be accomplished and yet at a loss in their love life.

As an experienced teacher of yoga and literature, she combines a deep understanding of the body and the mind to help people reconnect with their hearts.





[Jon Dabach] 00:00
Today on the relationship Revival Show, I’m joined by Kimberly Healey. Kimberly is an Ivy Lee PhD in French literature turns, sex, and love and intimacy coach for people who find it perplexing to be accomplished. And yet at a loss in their love life as an experienced teacher of yoga and literature, she combines a deep understanding of the body and the mind to help people reconnect with their hearts.

[Jon Dabach] 00:24
You’re listening to the relationship revival podcast with Jon Dabach, also known as Mr. Spirituality. That’s me. I’m your host, giving you insights and guidance from over 10 years in the field of this amazing journey we call romance on this show, I go over everything you need to know about how to get into a relationship, how to get the most out of a relationship, and sometimes even how to gracefully end a relationship without pulling your hair out and going crazy.

[Jon Dabach] 00:51
And occasionally, I’m even joined by new and old friends who are also relationship experts to bring you guidance and wisdom with new perspectives. Thanks for stopping by. Kimberly Healey, thank you so much for being on the show.

[Kimberley Healey] 01:06
Thank you. It’s wonderful to be here. John. Nice to meet you.

[Jon Dabach] 01:09
Yeah, nice to meet you, too. I love your background. So you have a PhD in French literature, and you’re a dating coach.

[Jon Dabach] 01:18
And that’s, you know, there’s so much time that we spend on the podcast talking to people about how to be in a relationship out, like, what do you do when you’re 15 years into the marriage and love evaporates. But, you know, one thing that’s really interesting for me is I got married right before the apps came out, like literally right before, and I saw it happen in my first year or two of marriage where it just exploded. I mean, there was still like, the online websites like eHarmony, and J data and stuff.

[Jon Dabach] 01:51
And I was on those for a bit when I was, you know, in my early 20s, and whatnot. But I cannot even think about what it’s like to navigate that landscape. And that’s kind of the kind of the sandbox you plan the most. So and there’s a lot of people who are coming out of marriages who listen to the podcast, or who haven’t been in that dating pool for a long time. And it’s obviously like something everybody’s going through.

[Jon Dabach] 02:16
There’s, there’s even a show, I think on Hulu, with Jesse Eisenberg. What’s it called? Something like Schmidt something’s wrong with it. Where are you?

[Kimberley Healey] 02:27
Plan? Something? Yes. What’s wrong?

[Jon Dabach] 02:31
What’s wrong? Was Schmidt something like that? Yeah. And I didn’t get to watch the whole thing. But like, it just reminded me of like, how radically different things are now. So tell me about what you first I want to get into your background too. But what do you do with people?

[Jon Dabach] 02:47
And who are the types of people who come and find you?

[Kimberley Healey] 02:50
Yeah. So I mostly work with creatives, filmmakers, photographers, chefs, actors, musicians, people who are incredibly good at dreaming things up, and not so good at dreaming up the love life that they want. Stepping back into that reality. The apps are intimidating and wild. And it’s an $82 billion dollar business worldwide,

[Jon Dabach] 03:17
Owned by like three companies

[Kimberley Healey] 03:19
Are and there are fewer people in relationships, since the apps have exploded than before the apps have exploded them. Almost half of Americans aren’t in serious relationships, adult Americans, right?

[Jon Dabach] 03:31
Did you have you ever looked at the stats in Asia?

[Kimberley Healey] 03:35
Not in Asia, but in Europe?

[Jon Dabach] 03:37
So in Asia, because they’ve had it longer than us, right? The social media, the average sexual partner, and the average age of marriage has dropped off a cliff in Asia. And I was like in shock, you know, it’s like, it’s crazy. It’s absolutely nuts. So I’m, you’re preaching to the choir, for sure.

[Kimberley Healey] 03:58
I don’t, they’re not invested in people coupling up and getting off the apps. Like it would be ludicrous to think that just like, you know, HelloFresh is not invested in you learning how to actually cook.

[Jon Dabach] 04:12
Maybe cook but not shop, right?

[Kimberley Healey] 04:15
Like not need them. Right. And so, what I have found is that people, what’s sad for me is that people have kind of, especially during the pandemic, because there was seemed to be no other option, right? How in the world are you going to meet anyone?

[Kimberley Healey] 04:28
People have kind of outsourced all that effort of connecting and meeting people to the apps kind of like we outsource maybe our house cleaning to a house cleaner, right? We outsource all of these things. And what happens is and when they’re in day to day life, and they could meet people, they’re like, No, I have an app for that. It’s become compartmentalized.

[Kimberley Healey] 04:48
It’s hard for people to make eye contact to have a casual conversation. It’s really hard for people, adults, especially accomplished adults to come out and say I’m looking for love, I’m lonely. I really want a lifelong partner. I work with some of my clients to just get them to say those words and they tear up, and they don’t want to look at me, and they don’t want to say it.

[Kimberley Healey] 05:12
But when they do, say it, like, your heart goes out to them, you’re like, I’m going to find someone for you, I’m going to help you. So, I feel like it’s a pandemic ends, we’re really at this crucial moment where we can turn towards people, or we can turn towards technology.

[Kimberley Healey] 05:28
And there are more and more apps every day, there’s a new one that has a special thing. But ultimately, what we want is to connect with people, people are very, very lonely. So what I do in my work is I help adults kind of align what their mind is thinking about how they want a relationship, which sometimes is a little outdated, because it’s something you know, they’ve stuck on from even like middle school, right?

[Kimberley Healey] 05:53
Adored, I want to feel safe, like, well, that’s good. And then what their body is saying about how they want to be in connection and community, with people. So I help I help people, with visualization, with breath work to align those two, because if I said to you, John, you’re you know, you’re going to go jump off this cliff, you’ve just used the word quit, you’re going to go jump off this cliff, right?

[Kimberley Healey] 06:19
You’re, and just go do it, you can do it, you can do it, go, go, and you got to the edge of the cliff. And you’d be like, ah, but if I took some time with you, and I was like, drop into your body, like, hear the ocean, feel the rocks under your feet? Is this the cliff that you want, right? Is this where you want to go.

[Kimberley Healey] 06:38
And so when people really drop into their physical sensations and their hearts desires, they get so much more clarity about the kind of connection they’re looking for, which is very different from all the stories in our heads. And so that’s

[Jon Dabach] 06:53
Kind of like the first step for you is really getting them in tune with what they really want.

[Kimberley Healey] 06:58
Absolutely. And that is hard for people. And I’ve

[Jon Dabach] 07:01
had, I’ve had lunch with friends of mine in their 50s, who have been divorced or just got divorced, or my one of my favorites is someone who got divorced when they were in their 30s, and then got into like, a 10 year relationship, four months later, and now they’re finally like, single.

[Jon Dabach] 07:18
And now they’re like, I’m not sure. And it’s like they’re in their 50s. And they never asked themselves. And it’s fascinating to see them kind of tripped over the same mistakes that other people did in their 20s because they weren’t married or something. So you’re right. It’s one of those things where like, you don’t just Intuit it, you kind of have to learn that skill set,

[Kimberley Healey] 07:38
Right? And who are role models? That’s, I mean, yeah, dating coach, that’s a made up thing. But it’s necessary, your grandmother can’t help you. Yeah, you’re married for 30 years, friends don’t know what to tell you. They love you, they see you in pain, and they don’t know how to help you.

[Kimberley Healey] 07:54
We have no role models, we haven’t lived this long as a species, with the ability to choose new mates past childbearing age or past, you know, sort of the very basics 1800s of you people in the US died in their 40s. So this, we don’t know what we’re doing. And yet, it’s such an opportunity for people to write a new story, like your friend can have whatever they want, if they can figure out what it is they want.

[Jon Dabach] 08:23
So let’s say you get them to the point where they know what they want. And I know that’s a process. What’s the step after that? And is that where your work ends? Or do you continue working with them?

[Kimberley Healey] 08:33
Well, depends on the depends on the person. Sometimes people get there quickly. And sometimes people it takes them a long time, especially I would say women who have been brought up to adapt and to others and to please others. Really not in the habit of saying I want this, and I want it now. Sure. That’s a lot of internal work that we go through. So the next thing is, in what daily practices are going to get you closer to what you want, is it going to be a strategy for working with apps, which is good, fine.

[Kimberley Healey] 09:06
But also I always encourage people to have a strategy for what they’re in real life, life is going to be looking like at the time. A lot of people are a little bit out of whack out of balance with they, they’re really easy. It’s really easy for them to connect with people, but they don’t let others connect with them, let’s say right?

[Kimberley Healey] 09:28
Sure. So the next step is like you’re meeting people, you’re going out you’re meeting people, are you too easily going to the yes without really thinking about who you are, or are you too quickly going to the No, because all the fears come up, right?

[Kimberley Healey] 09:42
So I have to do a lot of hand holding through the initial texting and dating stages so that people can stay grounded, not get into all of their fears around rejection and stick with the desire that they’ve come up with. So I really asked people to hone in on what to one or two desires and the way you just like keep going back to those they can change.

[Kimberley Healey] 10:04
But you can’t have 10 desires and a coherent dating life just won’t work. So how are you going to meet? Who are you going to meet? Where are you going to meet? What kind of time do you want to spend with people? Where do you draw lines?

[Kimberley Healey] 10:19
You know, to be to be very heterosexual and cisgender about it. My I see that women are drawing lines really, really fast, because they’ve had bad experiences. And men who are new to the dating world are saying, I’ll go out with anyone who go out with me, please, I’m lonely. She’s nice. I’ll go out with her. And I’m like, wait, wait, she’s nice. But does she want a long term relationship?

[Kimberley Healey] 10:45
Do you have anything in common? So it’s almost and I do blind, the dating apps. And there’s statistics on this too, like, like, that men are, men don’t get a lot of matches on the apps. And so they’ll match with anybody and women get matches who aren’t the right matches, and it just sort of goes and goes.

[Kimberley Healey] 11:02
So I really help people. Then like, take a deep breath, be patient, don’t leap to assumptions, check in with yourself and go on a date or two or three. It’s, it’s, it’s culturally okay in the US to like, make fun of people who are dating and to trash talk, the man you met on Bumble, or the woman, the women on Tinder and their filter. What I tried to do is like, what is the humanity in every single connection?

[Kimberley Healey] 11:33
And what can you learn? And how can? How can you take what you learned to feel better about humans to feel better about connections? It’s not like, Oh, he’s bad, and she’s bad. I really feel like a little. I don’t know. That’s my soapbox, everyone. Everyone deserves love. And everyone is worth spending, you know, a short date with

[Jon Dabach] 11:54
Yeah, I mean, as someone who does counseling and therapy sessions, that’s, that’s the first thing we do is we we find as and who be empathetic. If you can’t love your client, then you can help them. So I totally get that. And it’s hard sometimes, you know, because there’s some people have some storied histories when they come into the ya know, not you’d be surprised there aren’t there.

[Jon Dabach] 12:17
Most people are harder on themselves than then we would be. But there is that occasional where you’re like, you should be a little harder on yourself. And you still have to find a way to love those people. So you said you said something interesting.

[Jon Dabach] 12:32
You said a strategy to work with the apps. And again, me never having to use one. I mean, I think I downloaded one with my wife as a joke to kind of like see what it was like because neither of us. And then we deleted it that same night. But that’s so fascinating to think of it as a strategy. What can you kind of explain one of many strategies that you might kind of pitch because I’m just fascinated what that looks like,

[Kimberley Healey] 12:57
Oh, yeah, I have a lot of strategies. So well, there’s strategies about your profile, your pictures, and what you’re going to do their strategies about limiting yourself to a number of apps. But the real strategy is similar to what I was just talking about that not to lean on the apps as proof that things are as bad as you think they are. So please, please, please don’t swipe when you’re insomniac.

[Kimberley Healey] 13:23
Don’t swipe when you’re feeling lonely. I tell my clients, you get 10 A day, you can swipe on 10 people a day, and then you put it away, you turn off all notifications, you have it only on one device. You know, it’s a little thing that you do like drinking your coffee in the morning, swipe, swipe, swipe done for the day and move on. So it’s not like buzzing in your pocket as you go through the day.

[Kimberley Healey] 13:44
It’s not because it really quickly turns into a self-worth validation. Except it’s the opposite, right? It’s like nobody loves me. I’m all men are terrible. All women are terrible. And so the strategy is to really limit it and to not go for it when that gaping wound is starting to open of like, Oh, I just want someone to reaffirm that I’m unlovable, right. Gotcha.

[Jon Dabach] 14:14
Interesting. Well, what’s your own story? Like I know you did some dating in France during the pandemic, which is a mouthful. What’s I think it was I think Louie CK escaped there during the pandemic because I know he went somewhere in Europe. I don’t know where but he was just like, I’m out of here. What was your was your experience? Like? Yeah, it’s

[Kimberley Healey] 14:39
Pretty funny. So I had my heart broken really badly in March 2019. That’s a separate story. I thought it would be with this person the rest of my life and I’m not so I moved to I was moving to France. Anyhow, I’m you know, I spent a lot of time in France and in the in the summer 2019. I moved to France for a year off sabbatical.

[Kimberley Healey] 14:58
Do what I want to and march 13 2020, I was like, Okay, it’s been a year, stop moving, you need to cosmic joke, right? Because March 14 2020 brands is in total lockdown the end, the end, I went on one little tiny date before the lockdown in a park. And so I set myself the challenge of meeting 10 people while it was in France, because it’s like, I need to get better at this, I need to figure it out like you like our conversation before we started, like, I didn’t know what I was doing, right and know how the apps work. I’m totally fluent in French.

[Kimberley Healey] 15:33
So I didn’t have a linguistic problem. But there are cultural differences. And I didn’t know what I wanted. What did I want? I don’t know. Love Food, like someone else did. We couldn’t go to any restaurants. Saks probably, you know, loneliness. Physical? I

[Jon Dabach] 15:51
Hope so not probably Gosh, except there are all these rules. You couldn’t go more than one kilometer from you. So it’s like a different kind of lockdown.

[Kimberley Healey] 16:03
Yeah, so I remember like, the first time I like broke the rules to go to someone’s house, I was like, oh, my gosh, I have to have, you know, a shopping bag. So it looked like I’m shopping. And so since then I’ve met 44 men, because I’m heterosexual through online dating.

[Kimberley Healey] 16:20
And, you know, some, because of my work, I’ll be I’m happy to meet people just to like, be there practice, date or hang out, I meet a lot of people who it’s the very first time they’ve met someone since their marriage or their life has changed. And so it’s a little bit research.

[Kimberley Healey] 16:40
And I’m always open and say, well, that’s not true. If I’m not that interested in them, I’m open and say like, I’m a dating coach, I’m happy to you know, chat with you. But you know, this might work. If I am interested in them, I usually just show up as myself and not my work self.

[Kimberley Healey] 16:54
Sure. And I will say 44 men, so I want any women listening to this, I want you to know, I have had no bad experiences. Oh, well, I have had no bad experiences. People are people all in France or in France. And then I came back to the US in 2020. The lock down was too much for me.

[Jon Dabach] 17:16
Was 44 over three years,

[Kimberley Healey] 17:18
Or three years. Yeah. Is that right? 4443. And I tried to write it down because I can’t keep track. And I’ve and I’m one of the reasons since I did it is because I feel like I wanted to learn more about what’s going on with men. And the things I’ve heard are a little heartbreaking men are very lonely. They don’t have the perceived community that women seem to easily make.

[Kimberley Healey] 17:42
They don’t know what they’re supposed to do culturally right now. Like, if they make a move, they’re an aggressor. If they don’t make a move, they’re wimpy. It’s like the gender norms are so black and white. And there’s no right no space to do the right thing. It’s really hard to have a lot of empathy. So my clients are men too. And I work with them going dating to….

[Jon Dabach] 18:08
Gender norm thing I feel personally will go away over time, the social thing will not that’s been time in memoriam. So men, I don’t know if anybody’s pointed this out to you. But in a heterosexual or heteronormative relationship. It’s very rare that the man will have any kind of social circle, that job is put on the wife. Right? And so it’s like, you know it to me, it’s like, yeah, I get it. I mean, I have some friends who are single in their 30s through 50s. And if they don’t go to the happy hour, they’re home. And that’s it. And like that’s all they do. We’re just kind of clueless that way.

[Kimberley Healey] 18:49
Yeah, so a lot of my work for men and women or whoever I’m working with, is about building connections, whether or not they’d be romantic. So I you know, I’ve given talks on this like this, the skills that I’m teaching are useful for making friendships as well. And we should be practicing these skills on our friends because it’ll make us better friends. Right? Yeah, yeah. So wait, states that

[Jon Dabach] 19:15
You that you’ve been on? Oh my gosh. I mean, I hate to cut you off, but I was like, I want to hear

[Kimberley Healey] 19:25
I met a guy we went bow hunting in the woods with a fake deer and that didn’t kill anything. Oh, wow. Yeah.

[Jon Dabach] 19:32
I’m taking mental notes for like my wife because you know, dinner a movie gets Oh, yeah, no.

[Kimberley Healey] 19:37
Archery. Another guy. I was like, you know, I’m so tired of boring dates. He’s like, well, do you want to get your motorcycle license and he signed us up for a motorcycle clinic and I got my motorcycle license.

[Jon Dabach] 19:47
Is that a one day thing? Yeah. Wow. Well, I

[Kimberley Healey] 19:50
Did a little practicing first, but yeah, yeah. Wow, that’s

[Kimberley Healey] 19:53
Great hours.

[Kimberley Healey] 19:54
It was really fun. It was really fun. I know. I still can’t really ride a motorcycle but I did it. Yeah. Other fantastic dates have been like a nine mile hike in the woods in the dark. I liked the

[Jon Dabach] 20:09
Theory, you’d be better trust the person. Yeah. Well, so it started out

[Kimberley Healey] 20:13
As a short one. And then we’re, I started to feel very confident about this probably

[Jon Dabach] 20:17
Wouldn’t put that as your profile. Would you like to go on a nine mile dark? With me?

[Kimberley Healey] 20:25
Yeah, I mean, recently, someone took me to a comedy club. I never go to those. That was. That was great. Yeah. You know, for me, it’s

[Jon Dabach] 20:32
A standard date. I love comedy. But yeah, so

[Kimberley Healey] 20:36
And then I would say that some weekend trips, you know, I’ve been I’m game I’ll try it, its fine. I’ll go anywhere. I think the worst days are going out for a drink. Like, that’s good. You’re sitting still, there’s a lot of ambient noise. Right now? Are they drinking too much alcohol or you’re not drinking enough alcohol like all these judgments?

[Jon Dabach] 20:59
Right? Right. Do you recommend to people not to do the drink as a first date just to like, see, because it’s slow commitment, right? Because you can end a drink in an hour. So I get why people do that. And it’s also low cost for the men because if they’re going out with women, it’s like, this is expensive.

[Kimberley Healey] 21:19
So we have a strategy, I tell her where to plan a 35 minute first date, okay, to to have something at the end, like, oh, I have to run I have a zoom call or I have a I have to go meet a friend. Something that you could change if you were having a good time. But that when you arrive, you tell the person? I’ve got 35 minutes, I’m sorry. You know, it’s a relief to both parties. Everyone’s like, oh, okay, I’ll make it through 35 minutes. Like this is a hard stop.

[Jon Dabach] 21:47
You can hang on by your fingernails, we can make

[Kimberley Healey] 21:49
it. It’ll be okay. Yeah. And, and at the end of that 35 minutes, I mean, you know, if it’s amazing, but it’s also like in France, there’s expression staysail. So far, to stay a little hungry is good marriages to staying a little hungry, like, we don’t get it all right now.

[Kimberley Healey] 22:08
So then you want to make another opportunity to meet them or not. And so what I want my clients to do is to do something they would normally do that brings them joy or pleasure. So if I would normally just love to take a walk in the park and I want to go on a date that’s in the park. If someone else loves beautiful cocktails, go have beautiful cocktail. So that you’re whole nervous system is looking forward to some aspect of this encounter with a new person.

[Jon Dabach] 22:36
That sounds great. Yeah, like that. That’s good. You definitely don’t want to do something. If you’re not the motorcycle type. You don’t want to make that a date.

[Jon Dabach] 22:45
Like I heard this was a good day, even though he’s terrified of motorcycles. That wouldn’t be good. I have a funny first date story that I haven’t thought of since I was because I haven’t when I was like 1920. But the so is that blind dates I want set me up with this girl who was Israeli? She was beautiful, but her name was moron. And but she with the English accent. It sounds just like moron.

[Jon Dabach] 23:11
And so we were we went to get a coffee at a Starbucks. And I’m like, well, what’s your order? And I grabbed it from her. I was like always in line because there was a line you know, you want to go sit in one of the couches. And I forgot the order. And so I yelled across the Starbucks. Hey, more on what did you want to? And the woman behind me in line chewed me out. She was like, how dare you?

[Jon Dabach] 23:35
How dare you? And she’s like, don’t you realize how far women have come on. Like, lady that’s her name. And she’s like, that is not her name. She has a name. What is your name? And the woman and my date said I’m moron. And she went no. What is your she thought she was being abused?

[Jon Dabach] 23:52
And I said no, its moron. Within a she’s Israeli. And the woman bought us our drinks. And had a happy ending. She was so embarrassed. But I was like, yeah, how do you think I feel? It’s a blind date. I had to text someone. Hey, moron. Where do you want to meet? You know, it didn’t work out.

[Jon Dabach] 24:09
But for other reasons. But as like, I’ll never forget it. And except I did. I haven’t brought it up in 10 years. So it’s kind of funny. Yeah, so you never know. Like sometimes I tell people I tell my married couples. It’s better to go out on a bad date than no date at all. Because you guys can laugh about it later.

[Kimberley Healey] 24:29
On that one, John. Like this whole Disneyland, Disney fairytale Princess meet at first sight block. If you think about the best relationships that you know, I really lasted a long time and are fabulous. Almost every single one of them started with a no. Yeah, it was a bad first date. One of them wasn’t single.

[Kimberley Healey] 24:50
They didn’t really like each other. Right? The ones that start with a yes, fizzle out like so. I think a bad date is is good in a way Like if, you know, like, like you said it can be the story, but also, it’s human and normal. Like it shouldn’t be a rom com.

[Jon Dabach] 25:08
Yeah. Yeah. It’s funny when people ask how my wife and I date, it’s not my line. But I tell people, because it’s like, our story is kind of boring. So I’ll tell people we met in the return line at the 99 cent store. Just to kind of break things up. But, but you’re right, like, I think she said, Yes.

[Jon Dabach] 25:27
And she said, yes, emphatically, but in her head, it was a no, because I’m a little younger than her. And so she was like, I don’t know. But she was at that place. They’re like, she’s like, just try it. And that just try it turned into we’re getting married. Yeah. So. So yeah, that’s I think that’s really great advice.

[Kimberley Healey] 25:42
Well, what time do you need? What’s that? And it takes time. We need time to get to know someone. Yeah.

[Jon Dabach] 25:48
Yeah. Everybody has their own threshold of warming up for sure. I have four kids. They’re all different. They all have their own, you know, like, and it depends on the day too. So for sure. What’s the best way for someone to reach out it sounds like you’d be a great fit for so many. Is it through your website, Kimberlyhealey.com.

[Kimberley Healey] 26:11
My website is great. Kimberly hilly.com. You can book a free half hour and we can see if we’re a match for this work. I’m also on Instagram @healeydelight H E A L E Y.

[Kimberley Healey] 26:21
And I also post I do free talks, and I post them like every month on YouTube, I’ve given talks on dating and spirituality, what to do when you’re ghosted, dating as a cultural outsider, like, that wasn’t our topic today. But like what, like, dating is an immigrant. That’s really a thing here in the Bay Area where people

[Jon Dabach] 26:39
Well, yeah, if you are interesting,

[Kimberley Healey] 26:43
Yeah, yeah, as an outsider culturally, or your age or your ability. So I give a lot of free talks on things that I think are interesting around dating, and people are welcome to come to those. They’re on Eventbrite. Oh, it’s listed, but probably the easiest, the most direct way would be through my website, or follow me on Instagram and

[Jon Dabach] 27:01
Awesome. I’ll be sure to post everything in the show notes as well and on the website listing, but kimberlyhealey.com spelled just the way you think it is. So it’s, yeah, it definitely sounds like a shoo in for a lot of people, especially if they’re in that place. Thank you so much for being on the program.

[Kimberley Healey] 27:18
You’re welcome. It was so nice to meet you.

[Jon Dabach] 27:20
If you’re interested in learning how to get the absolute most out of your romantic relationships then you’re in luck because I have put together a free workshop or masterclass if you will, about three secrets that people in happy relationships have discovered.

[Jon Dabach] 27:36
You can view the workshop and mrspirituality.com/threesecrets again, it’s completely free. Just go there and watch it. It’ll help you on your journey give you some wisdoms and things to think about. The website again is mrspirituality.com/threesecrets. That’s mrspirituality.com/the Number three, the word secrets. It’s all yours. Enjoy.


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