Special Guest: Rebekah Perkins

For nearly 15 years Rebekah has been developing people through coaching, counseling, management, and teaching. She started speaking professionally when I was 27 and loves all things personal development. Her greatest passion is helping build true confidence so they thrive in their lives and relationships, and impact the world for good…instead of spending years stuck and fixated on themselves. When people feel safe and comfortable in their own skin they are free to serve and love.


[Jon Dabach] 00:00
Today on the relationship Revival Show, I’m joined by Rebeka Perkins for nearly 15 years, Rebeka has been developing people through coaching, counseling, management and teaching. She started speaking professionally when she was 27.

[Jon Dabach] 00:13
And loves all things personal development, her greatest passion is helping build true confidence so that people thrive in their lives and relationships and impact the world for good. Instead of spending years stuck and fixated on themselves. When people feel safe and comfortable in their own skin, they are free to serve and love. You’re listening to the relationship revival podcast with Jon Dabach also known as Mr. Spirituality.

[Jon Dabach] 00:38
That’s me. I’m your host giving you insights and guidance from over 10 years in the field of this amazing journey we call romance on this show, I go over everything you need to know about how to get into a relationship, how to get the most out of a relationship, and sometimes even how to gracefully end a relationship without pulling your hair out and going crazy. And occasionally, I’m even joined by new and old friends who are also relationship experts to bring you guidance and wisdom with new perspectives. Thanks for stopping by Rebeka Perkins, thank you so much for being on the show. How are you today?

[Rebeka Perkins] 01:14
I’m wonderful. How are you?

[Jon Dabach] 01:16
I’m good. I’m good. So you are a coach, and you work with women. Tell me about how you got into it and kind of what your specialty is.

[Rebeka Perkins] 01:27
Yeah, so I am 40. I got my master’s degree in my late 20s. In counseling, actually marriage and family therapy. And I started to practice counseling, I discovered that was a little heavy for me. I didn’t like the pure, you know, five sessions a day, five days a week, I was much more drawn to the forward thinking. So about five years ago, I switched to coaching. And I’m also a speaker.

[Rebeka Perkins] 01:56
So I think the first time I got paid to speak I was 27, which seems like I girl sort of a long time ago now. But also just yesterday. And so yeah, I mean, I tend I tend to focus on working with women. And mostly because I just see that a lot of women are struggling really deeply with things that are so fixable. Identity issues, personal sense of worth value, things that are not really taught deeply, you know, they’re talked about a lot, you’re enough and all that, but they’re not really taught deeply. And so that’s what I do. And I love it.

[Jon Dabach] 02:36
That’s so interesting. So when you say it was too heavy for you, was it the workload or the actual work? Or is it because my wife is a therapist, and I do counseling, too. And Ivan, I do sometimes nine sessions in a day. So I could totally I can totally understand the burnout part of it? Or was it the actual kind of modality of therapy that was a little too much. And that’s why you kind of ventured into coaching because it has more of a forward momentum? I’m kind of curious what, you know, getting into the nitty gritty of it.

[Rebeka Perkins] 03:10
Yeah, I don’t necessarily think it was workload, because I can still see quite a few clients and do quite a bit of work every day. Now. For me, I’m just a very empathetic person. Some people might, you know, highly sensitive, whatever you say, but I wasn’t good at just kind of listening to people and not internalizing what they were telling me. And so, you know, when you’re sitting, I worked on a college campus.

[Rebeka Perkins] 03:37
And so most of my clients were college age women. And they were telling me things, you know, their trauma and their past that they’d never told anybody. And they were telling me for the first time, and it was so many dark stories and so much heavy stuff day after day after day, and I felt it for them.

[Rebeka Perkins] 03:53
You know, I felt it in my body, I internalized it. And I would go home at night and just feel like I had to recover to even be able to start again the next day. Yeah, I said, I did that for a few years. But it got to the point where I was like, it’s changing me, I just, I was like seeing the world in a different way, like a darker way. And I’m like, I don’t, I don’t really want this.

[Jon Dabach] 04:14
Yeah, there are certain there are certain places like another example would be at a prison where like, there’s a certain detachment that needs to be in that type of person. So you’re more so kind of the population that you work with was kind of what needed to shift more than anything it sounds like

[Rebeka Perkins] 04:30
And even, like, I was very aware that that I could have continued doing that with a little bit of detachment. Sure. But I didn’t want to I feel really, you know, hug that person cry with that person hold space for that person, which means at the end of the hour, I’m wrung out, like and so I was very aware, I’m like, I can continue in this profession, but I would have to, you know, just put some distance here. And I frankly I didn’t really want to so I just changed,

[Jon Dabach] 04:58
right I think I had that even be For in before I got into counseling and stuff, it was, there was one day where I went in and to sell gold to people over the phone. And I remember telling my wife, like, I could do this, and I’ll make a lot of money, but I’ll be a different person in three months.


[Jon Dabach] 05:15
And she’s like, mm, like, it’s, it’s probably the bottom of the barrel sleazebag would like world like the I don’t know, if all of them but the office, so I quit that day. And she’s like, No, that’s not worth it. So I totally, that’s the extreme example. But I totally understand where you’re coming from.

[Jon Dabach] 05:29
So when you when you work with people now it’s so interesting, I love that you talked about or you just kind of briefly brushed past the idea that so much of it is solvable, and so much of it is fixable. So talk to me a little bit about that, and why a lot of women, and I’m sure you deal with men as well, but especially women, because I see that in my couples as well, where they feel like it that’s just who they are, that’s what they’re stuck with, and why that thinking has been a part of their life and how to kind of get past that.

[Rebeka Perkins] 06:01
Yeah, I mean, I like to use the term, you know, truth and lies, and when we’re believing lies about ourselves or truth, but it goes a long way from the head to the heart. So a lot of people will hear the truth and whatever, you know, that could be anything from, you know, if you’re a faith based person, some truth in that realm, or it could be something just like, you can do it, you’re capable, you’re enough as a woman, I mean, even these messages are, you know, all over the place.

[Rebeka Perkins] 06:28
And so they’re like, Well, if I just kind of read it in my journal enough for put it on my mirror, or everybody tells me I am. But feeling that way on the inside. And like, knowing that about having that self-concept that like, I am just because like I’m just because I’m a human, just because I’m, you know, created on purpose, just because, you know, the distance from the head to the heart is really, there’s usually only usually a few things in the way. But it takes a little bit of work. And it usually takes help.

[Rebeka Perkins] 07:01
I’m not sure why people are afraid to ask for help. But you know, the, whether it’s past trauma, or whether it’s the lie that you haven’t even been able to identify that you’re believing or whether it’s like, oh, I have all this experience or evidence in my life that tells me I’m not enough. And this is just one example, right?

[Rebeka Perkins] 07:18
But those things with a professional who like, does this work a lot can be fixed. I mean, I literally have clients who feel radically different in like a month. And that’s not because I’m amazing, but it’s because when somebody knows, right where the issue is, and how to get to that issue, like it is fixable. It is,

[Jon Dabach] 07:39
And what’s the so let’s create a fictional person, right? Maybe an amalgam of different of different people you’ve worked with, let’s say what’s a typical, or even an atypical will keep it anonymous, you know, lie that someone believes about themselves? That is a limiting belief. That I have to that I can’t say no to people.

[Jon Dabach] 08:06
And what is and so how do you approach that? Do you talk to them about why that is? Or are you more forward thinking in like, well, let’s practice saying no, I’m kind of curious how it works with you in your sessions?

[Rebeka Perkins] 08:18
Yeah, we definitely. For the first couple of sessions, we’ll dig to the why. So and then, and then it becomes practice. So the Why would be, okay, so it lets imagine you’re saying no to, you know, your sister in law who asks you to host the baby shower, and you can’t, you’re so anxious. You’re so busy, like, okay, so why can’t you say no? Well, I don’t want her to be mad at me. I don’t want her to be sad.

[Rebeka Perkins] 08:44
I don’t want to let her down. She doesn’t have anybody else who can do it. So we start to look at those reasons, right? And a lot of times, they just have to speak them out. But then there’s me coming in and whether it all happens in one session, or maybe a couple of sessions.

[Rebeka Perkins] 09:00
But yeah, it starts there. It starts with the Why do you think you can’t say no? How do you feel when you say no? What’s scary about saying no? You know, what, what are you sacrificing by not saying no. would your life be different? If you were able to say no more often?

[Jon Dabach] 09:22
Yeah, all those questions come out in two sessions. Right. Those are all big questions,

[Rebeka Perkins] 09:28
Big questions, and people have to dig deep and, and the thing is, they don’t usually, I don’t think people usually sit and reflect on why am I doing what I’m doing. Like, even if it’s not working. Why am I doing it? Yeah.

[Jon Dabach] 09:43
So interesting. Well, what do you have you kind of use this own thinking in your own life for yourself? Mm hmm.

[Rebeka Perkins] 09:57
Well, yeah, I mean, part of my story is that I really thought I mean, my life, the way I thought my life was going to go is that I would get married young and have kids and have a family just like everybody else. I am 40. I got married one year ago.

[Rebeka Perkins] 10:12
So I got married for the first time, its age 39. And what that meant for me, because that’s not how I thought my life would go, is that for about two decades, I had to do a lot of like, who am I? And what am I about? And am I enough on my own? And how do I pivot in my life, when my life is not going the way that I thought it would go?

[Rebeka Perkins] 10:32
So I think that that the way my life played out, like, you know, it’s really hard to be single for that long if you don’t want to be, right, it’s really hard to like launch into adulthood, and everybody else is getting married and having kids and buying houses and having multiple jobs, and now they’re buying second houses.


[Rebeka Perkins] 10:50
And it’s like, and you still feel like everybody’s life is moving forward. But yours, that kind of large, that could have deeply affected my sense of value identity. But I just got into the habit, you know, over all those years, from a pretty young age, mid 20s, I got into the habit of constantly looking at those uncomfortable emotions, and constantly saying, okay, but who do I want to be?

[Rebeka Perkins] 11:13
Like, even though this isn’t going the way that I thought it was supposed to go? Who do I still want to be? How do I not let these things affect me, or like another breakup or another, this or another, you know, the 10th Christmas that I’m spending at my parents’ house, even though I’m you know, 34 at the time, or whatever, like those things can really affect a person.

[Rebeka Perkins] 11:34
And I just was, like, I’m not going to let these things make me better or worse or insecure, which just required massive amounts of finding my own lies, and massive amounts of like my own self-reflection along the way.

[Jon Dabach] 11:51
That’s interesting. Yeah, for sure. And I bet there’s a big part of the population that you deal with who, you know, they’re single, and they’re in their 30s. And that that sense of empathy you can bring to the table is super valuable.

[Rebeka Perkins] 12:04
Yeah, I hope so. I mean, I do see them and I understand and, and I understand what it can do. But then yes, it’s created me now the ability to coach people and be like, your circumstances don’t define you. And are you taking your thoughts captive? Are you looking at what’s really going on in your head and in your heart?

[Rebeka Perkins] 12:21
Or are you waiting for the world to validate you? Are you waiting for somebody to validate you? Because that just doesn’t work. But I’ve walked that, you know, and so it makes it easier for me to just, it’s like a Blair glaring light now when I see it and other people, so it’s easier for me to kind of invite them in and be like, This is what you’re doing. And, and we can change it.

[Jon Dabach] 12:46
Fascinating. I, I’m processing I’m sorry, if it seems like I’m just like, there’s so much there. How does? How does your faith and the faith of the people you work with kind of inform the process for you? Does it play a huge role a small role? Does it play a role at all?

[Rebeka Perkins] 13:04
Yeah, it does. So I was recently, yes, I mean, it, I very much believe that truth exists and that it exists outside of me. I don’t think I don’t think that means our feelings don’t matter. I think our feelings matter greatly. And I think our feelings are indicators of things that matter and things that we’re passionate about, and things that have hurt us and they have to be dealt with.


[Rebeka Perkins] 13:32
But you know, when I’m working with women, actually, I’m going to use a Maya Angelou quote, I was just listening to a podcast interview yesterday with it’s an older one, obviously, because she’s passed, but between Oprah and Maya Angelou, and she was telling.

[Rebeka Perkins] 13:48
So this is her quote, not mine, that there has to be a place inside of you that no nobody, and nothing can touch. And that place inside of you is like your core sense of identity or value. Right. And she too, is a faith based person. And so she was saying that it’s, I’m created by God and the image of God on purpose. I’m not an accident, you know, I’m here. I’m a child of God even and so I do use that, you know, that’s how I view myself. That’s how I help other women view themselves.

[Rebeka Perkins] 14:20
Because I think that’s the truth. I don’t think any human is here on accident. You know, I don’t think any human is here without purpose. And so, yeah, especially when it comes to things like that sense of value, that sense of identity. It’s like, okay, but that’s a you, that’s you work.

[Rebeka Perkins] 14:38
That’s not something that your job or you know, the person you’re in relationship with, or even your kids, a lot of women look to motherhood to kind of like validate them. But it’s like there has to be a place inside of you where you know who you are, despite what anybody else says And despite what any of your circumstances say So I know that about myself and, and I help other people do that. And so yeah, that’s very, that’s very much aligned with my faith.

[Jon Dabach] 15:10
It’s interesting, you talk about motherhood and these kinds of external things defining you as a man. The kind of one of the perspectives I bring to a lot of relationships is that men often identify with their careers exclusively. Yeah. And so it’s like rebuilding that in people.

[Jon Dabach] 15:26
And you’re right. And for women, whether they’re career based or not, that role of mother is so all encompassing, that it defines who they are, and they get lost. And, you know, sometimes they’ll just in the middle of a session will be like, I don’t even know what I am anymore, you know, and especially you see it with the empty nesters. Yeah. Because it’s like, now the kids are out. And what do I do? What is?

[Rebeka Perkins] 15:49
Yeah, who am I because they vaguely remember that they kind of used to be somebody in high school or college, but they’re like, I went all in, you know, my whole life became about my kids. And that gives a lot of direction and, and a meaning every day. I mean, it pulls you, you have to kind of externally respond to everything that’s required of you all day, every day as a mother. And then when all that stuff gets quiet, you’re like, why am I here? Like?

[Jon Dabach] 16:18
Right, right? Yeah. How do you find? How do you make? What’s kind of the road to rebuild that sense of individuality?

[Rebeka Perkins] 16:27
Yeah, that’s a great question. I mean, a lot of it is beliefs. Who I mean, who do you believe you are, and again, it can’t just be in your head, it has to be a deep sense of, of knowing. So a lot of what I think women notice this more by the adverse effects of it.

[Rebeka Perkins] 16:50
So for example, a lot of women tell me they walk into a room, meeting new people, and they’re just really nervous. They’re, their inner voice is really loud. Do I look good? Does she like me? What did I just say, I can’t remember what I said to this person, and you know, the, looking for the external. Really prevents somebody from being present, and offering yourself to the world.

[Rebeka Perkins] 17:16
And so after we’ve kind of identified the lies, a lot of what I do is I’m like, Okay, well, you start to notice this week, how much all this stuff is happening, how often, your inner voice is so loud, how often you’re overreacting to, let’s say, a criticism, how often you’re taking something that you’re, let’s say, husband or kid, like if they had a bad day taking that personally, when it’s like, not about you at all, but you think it’s about you.

[Rebeka Perkins] 17:45
And after they’ve identified all of those things, there’s a real, like, okay, but teaching them really how to let how to be strong enough that their core to let those things go to let those things bounce off of them. Again, some of this stuff takes a few months. There’s not a like, super clear path, but a sense of personhood, like re reestablishing the sense of like, you can’t disrupt my peace without my permission, you know, which you said, what’s the path back to individuality?

[Rebeka Perkins] 18:20
And so yes, eventually, it gets to that point where it’s like, we’ve talked about it, you know, what’s happening. So, now, this week, when the moment comes, you’re going to act like a whole person, you’re going to act like a person who’s self-possessed, and who knows who you are, and see how that goes. And a lot of times, they’re shocked that it’s easier than they think, you know, to do whatever it is that they need to do.

[Rebeka Perkins] 18:44
And by the way, that’s when the sense of personhood or individuality or even confidence or value gets rebuilt, it’s usually after you start to do the thing that really comes through for yourself. Once you start to physically do that thing, then you start to feel better. So that’s and with me, it’s just kind of working on what is that for you?

[Rebeka Perkins] 19:10
Because everybody’s such an individual. But what is that thing you have to do to kind of stop betraying yourself kind of stopped being a people pleaser? Stop just doing everything that everybody else wants for you all the time, because that’s not serving them well, or you will. And when they stopped doing it is usually when their feelings quote unquote, shift and even their belief about themselves.

[Jon Dabach] 19:30
So do you look for something physical, like an action to tie to?

[Rebeka Perkins] 19:35
Yeah, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I’ve done I’ve done little things like you’re going to go to the grocery store in your sweatpants with no makeup on. And for some women, that’s like mind blowing, right? Okay, but you’re going to and you’re going to realize that when you come home, you’re okay.

[Rebeka Perkins] 19:51
And the world didn’t crash and it’s not like people don’t love you anymore. And it’s literally the action that they go I’m not off, you know, so yes, we always find some kind of action that is that helps them again, move that, that thing from their head to their heart. Yeah, because talking about it doesn’t do the moving. It’s usually straight

[Jon Dabach] 20:14
Action. Right? It’s so it’s so fascinating. You’re right. I mean, one of my big things almost in every first session is creating structure and relationship. And it always revolves around action. And I inevitably get my clients texting me saying, I don’t know if it’s working, and I don’t know.

[Jon Dabach] 20:33
And then suddenly, a day later, they’re like, you know, she said this, or he said this, and it worked. And it’s like, and they’re in shock that it worked. I’m like, just stay with it for a week, stay with it for two weeks, and then we’ll revisit, you know, but like, this is a little experiment. We’re just, if it doesn’t work, we’ll change things. And I think that’s, that’s, that’s also great for you too, right?

[Jon Dabach] 20:54
Like, if, for some reason, they run into someone at the grocery store, and they’re mortified that they don’t have makeup? And it’s like, okay, well, let’s, let’s think about, Okay, was it really a failure? Or did that actually accomplish something and they might be in tears, you know, I saw, I saw the worst person at the grocery store. You know, she always judges me. And it’s like, okay, well, guess what? Now that’s not a conversation. Yeah.

[Rebeka Perkins] 21:19
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we, I think, so many times, we have to experience a thing to believe it, right? I mean, we even have to, like, usually experience unconditional love to believe that that’s true. We have to experience that, Oh, I did interact with this woman at the store.

[Rebeka Perkins] 21:36
And she didn’t laugh at me or she didn’t stop being my friend or whatever mean, whatever. That’s just one example. But our feelings, a lot of people I think, try to wait until it feels safe for good or I feel confident. And it’s like, okay, but we’ve done all the talking. And there comes a moment where you have to go prove to yourself that you can do it, and then you feel confident.

[Jon Dabach] 21:59
Yeah. Fantastic. Well, how can people work with you? What are the different ways that you offer this kind of guidance?

[Rebeka Perkins] 22:08
Yeah, well, I do have a podcast in my own, which is where all the good free, you know, stuff is. That’s called coffee conversation and coaching. With Rebeka. I do one on one coaching right now my roster is pretty darn full. I’ll always do discovery calls.

[Rebeka Perkins] 22:25
But I have probably about a month wait before I could take on a new client. And then I have a group coaching program, a group coaching program that after my, you know, almost 10 years of working with women, one on one, I have found what I believe are a lot of the core issues. So those are identity, their emotional intelligence, their personhood, taking ownership.

[Rebeka Perkins] 22:48
And I cover all of those things in the group coaching program, which is only $97 a month. So it’s very affordable, and it hits on a lot of these things. So that’s, you know, they can find that on my website, which is just Rebeka-chan.com.

[Jon Dabach] 23:03
And I’ll be sure to put that in the show notes as well. Rebeka Perkins thank you so much for being here and being on the show and sharing all your wisdom.

[Rebeka Perkins] 23:11
Yeah, thank you for having me.

[Jon Dabach] 23:13
If you’re interested in learning how to get the absolute most out of your romantic relationships and you’re in luck because I have put together a free workshop or masterclass if you will, about three secrets that people in happy relationships have discovered.

[Jon Dabach] 23:30
You can view the workshop and mrspirituality.com/threesecrets again, it’s completely free. Just go there and watch it. It’ll help you on your journey give you some wisdoms and things to think about. The website again is mrspirituality.com/threesecrets. That’s mrspirituality.com/the Number three, the word secrets. It’s all yours. Enjoy.


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