As co-hosts of the top marriage podcast in Apple Podcasts, the ONE Extraordinary Marriage Show, Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo speak to a worldwide audience about sex, love & commitment, and challenge every listener to make their relationship a priority. Their best-selling book, The 6 Pillars of Intimacy, has transformed countless marriages around the world. This framework is simple, practical, and powerful. You’ll be inspired to look at your marriage through a new lens and be encouraged by its commonsense approach.
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[Jon Dabach] 00:00
Today on the relationship Revival Show, I’m joined by Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo as co-hosts of the top marriage podcasts and Apple podcasts. The one extraordinary marriage show, Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo speak to a worldwide audience about sex, love and commitment, and challenge every listener to make their relationship a priority.
[Jon Dabach] 00:20
Their best-selling book, the six pillars of intimacy has transformed countless marriages around the world. This framework is simple, practical, and powerful. You’ll be inspired to look at your marriage through a new lens and be encouraged by its common sense approach. You’re listening to the relationship revival podcast with Jon Dabach, also known as Mr. Spirituality.
[Jon Dabach] 00:41
That’s me. I’m your host giving you insights and guidance from over 10 years in the field of this amazing journey we call romance on this show, I go over everything you need to know about how to get into a relationship, how to get the most out of a relationship, and sometimes even how to gracefully end a relationship without pulling your hair out and going crazy.
[Jon Dabach] 01:03
And occasionally, I’m even joined by new and old friends. We’re also relationship experts to bring you guidance and wisdom with new perspectives. Thanks for stopping by Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo Thank you so much for being on the podcast how you guys doing today?
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 01:18
Doing fantastic, how are you?
[Jon Dabach] 01:20
I’m great. I’m great. I love talking to people who do very similar kind of things and approaches to myself. And I think there’s a lot of kind of overlap with us in terms of how you guys look at fixing relationships and approaching kind of increasing intimacy and relationships.
[Jon Dabach] 01:37
And just hearing kind of like comparing notes, you know, and kind of hearing how you guys go about doing what you do. So first of all, how did how did it come about how you guys have been doing it for about 13 years or so? Yeah, something like that. So how did you get started? How did how did this kind of become part of your life?
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 01:57
Well, there well, if we go back 15 years, our marriage was in really a not great spot. We, we had two young children at the time, they were two and five. And we were doing the roommate thing really, really well.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 02:12
We could handle the logistics of lives. But the love the excitement, what it meant to be married was just gone. And we were at a crossroads. And it was really that crossroads that has changed our life.
Yeah, and with that crossroads, what we ended up doing is we took on a 60 day sex challenge. And that was the start, this is at year 11 of our marriage. And we just knew at this point in time in our lives, we had to make some changes, because we had three choices at this point, John, really, one was either hanging out till the kids turned 18, and then get a divorce then to get a divorce now and just like let’s go on our own separate ways.
We’ll deal with co-parenting in separate households or, or just dealing with, you know, what happens when you divorce? Or see, like, let’s get radical. And so at least I chose that third one, let’s get radical. We attempted and completed a 60 day sex challenge. We finished 40 out of 60 days. But through that we learned it’s a lot more than just sexual intimacy.
[Jon Dabach] 03:17
Backup and explain what a 60 day’s sex challenge is. So that everybody’s kind of on the same page.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 03:23
So we had committed, Tony had proposed the idea that we would have sex every day for 60 days.
[Jon Dabach] 03:30
Which and how many years into the marriage was this
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 03:33
11 11 12 during
[Jon Dabach] 03:37
A lot of marriages, that’s more sex than the first 11 years? Yeah. We were having cumulatively, like, you know, yeah.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 03:49
Because there’s this idea that sexual intimacy is supposed to fall off, right, that the longer you’re married, the less section should be having and, and I we look at that, and we actually kind of laugh about that now. Because, you know, our audience the one family has, as they’ve worked on all the all the different intimacies have really boosted the sexual intimacy.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 04:08
So we know couples that are you blowing that 60 Day sex challenge out of the water. But it was this idea of what happens if we make our marriage a priority for 60 days. And the sex, the sexual intimacy, that was the catalyst. But it became about so much more than just committing to having sex every day.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 04:26
It was the shift in, you know, after over a decade of just kind of going through the motions and saying, Yeah, we’re married, hey, we share a house and we’ve got kids and we’re checking all the, you know, milestone boxes, it came back to this place of saying, who are Tony Annalisa as a married couple, and what does it look like if marriage is the primary relationship is the priority in the household?
[Jon Dabach] 04:50
And so you did 40 of the 60 days. So what happened? Does that mean like you finish at 40 days and you stopped and you said, hey, or of the 6040 Extra 60 We
Had 40 days that we completed intercourse. Yeah. And so for us, that was one of the definitions that we set up. We did have some stipulations if Alisa was on her period, if one of us was traveling, or one of us was sick than those were no go days, out of the 60, we ended up completing 40 Out of those 60 days
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 05:25
Of those three
[Jon Dabach] 05:27
Challenges, challenges. After that, we were rocking and rolling. We did this in conjunction with us leading a small group study at our church. And we were talking through the Song of Solomon’s with the folks, the couples in our group. So it was really fun.
And when we finished it, we finished it. We finished up that small group study and we were on our way, we Elise and I were like, wow, there’s something to this, I cannot ask if we are intentional and we take action in our marriage, things are going to change, like there’s going to be a shift that happens. Unbeknownst to us, one of those couples mentioned to the small group director that we had done this.
And then they asked us to just speak at the next year’s marriage getaway. And it was at that getaway, where we more happened because we shared our story. And people were like, that is radical. Like that’s amazing what you did. And then they were asking like, well, what’s next? What’s next? And Elise? And I were like, No, we’re good. I was running another business.
She was home with the kids doing some side businesses as well. And it was a little bit after that when we started the podcast. And the whole purpose of one extraordinary marriage show was just to get open, honest and transparent with couples, because we hadn’t seen that we hadn’t heard that in our years of marriage. And we just wanted to speak into married couples and let them see weekly what’s going on in a marriage?
[Jon Dabach] 06:49
And what did you find was like the most surprising thing that came up more often than you thought it would?
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 06:55
In, in what capacity in
[Jon Dabach] 06:58
When you talk about things every week, like what are the topics we’re like, wow, this just never gets old. Like we always end up talking about this after a bit.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 07:06
I think you know, the fact that we have been able to talk about different aspects of sexual intimacy for 13 years now. We were just talking about it in our own marriage this morning. I’m like, do you realize like, the curiosity towards me, I turned 50.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 07:19
This year, I’m going to turn 49 I mean, the fact that we can honestly say we’re having the best sex of our lives, 26 going on 27 years, the fact that we’ve been able to develop emotional intimacy, and really be able to have conversations, like I’m floored at some of the topics that we talk about, even though I’m the one that like, prepares all the episodes.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 07:40
But just being in this place of saying there’s marriage is so multifaceted, that for us to talk about a new topic every week, or a variation on a topic and bring new insights into it. I think it just speaks to how much we can learn as individuals about our marriage and that we should stay curious, no matter how long we’ve been married.
[Jon Dabach] 08:03
That’s a great tip, staying curious. You want to talk more about what that means and how you can actually practice thing curious.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 08:09
Yeah, because this is a concept I talk about with my coaching clients a lot. You know, I deal with a lot of couples, specifically, kind of in that 15 to 30 years married. And, yeah, you’re way past the dating stage. You’re in the middle of all the kids your careers going, and it can feel really like this relationship is really comfortable. I know you can. We’ve been together for so long, and we try to have been together.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 08:32
We’re just in Boulder where we met, we’ve been together almost 30 years. That’s a long time. Yeah. But the going on Fifth new version of [Tony] is not the same guy that I met when he was 21. Right? And so I’m not actively asking questions. Hey, what are your dreams?
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 08:48
Yeah. What do you want to do? What gets you excited? Now? What? What worries you? Right? What are the things that we thought we were going to accomplish this year? And we haven’t or you thought we were going to accomplish by now? And we haven’t?
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 09:00
What are the dreams you have for our kids? What do you want to do with the business? What if your spouse isn’t like what do you want to do in your job? What would what lights you up with these types of questions that just and then sit back and be quiet? Don’t do what I just didn’t ask questions. I just want to know who you are. Yeah, because the one thing I found in coaching is that most people just want to be seen and heard.
[Jon Dabach] 09:27
Yeah, I would agree with that. I would agree as like when I have therapy clients sitting on the couch. I mean, I think it’s a way that this comes up and tell me if you guys feel this feel the same when you’re dealing with your coaching clients, is when they say like, Well, we already know everything about each other or the conversations gotten boring, or like I’m sorry, but like, I don’t want to hear the gossip that she has of like her work friends, like I just took out.
[Jon Dabach] 09:50
That’s kind of when you’re like time to kind of revisit who you actually are. And I have lists of open ended questions that I’m sure you guys do, too, that you hand off, because I do find it’s I think I don’t know how often you suggest to go through it, but kind of my cadence is like, you should be asking all these questions on the list at least once a year.
[Jon Dabach] 10:08
Like, it’s like there’s if it’s if there’s 30 Questions like there should be two or three that come up on a date night, and like those should it should last you. Yeah.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 10:16
Well, and that’s why I love you know, a lot of times I’ll refer a couple of humans to you know, tools like conversation cards, like just shove it in your pocket, you know, he can put something in his wallet, ladies, you likely have a bag or you know, ever he’s got the attachments now under their phone.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 10:30
So you just for the credit card, I’m like, stick a couple cards in there. And you’re out ask a question. Ask a question. We keep decks in our car, there’s some decks in our glove box. So if we’re on a drive, it’s like, hey, just pull something out? Because it can be really, one of the challenges to curiosity is that over time, you can just be like, what do I ask? And so having the open ended questions or other prompts really becomes a valuable resource for couples?
[Jon Dabach] 10:56
Yeah, that’s a great, that’s a great tip to just have a couple always at your disposal. When you talk about building emotional intimacy and physical intimacy, which one do you feel if you had to start with one is the better way to kind of jump things off for a couple.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 11:13
So in the most recent book, we wrote the Six Pillars of intimacy, I just, I describe emotional intimacy as the workhorse. Because the ability to through verbal and nonverbal communication express what it is that you want, what your desires are, and all of those various nuances is what drives being able to talk about your physical intimacy, the non-sexual touch, be able to talk about finances, and, you know, spirituality and sexual intimacy and one of the spiritual and, you know, being able to do that, but if you can’t have a conversation, chances are good, you’re not going to be talking about anything in your marriage.
Yeah. And that’s where the one is hurting your marriage show has come in. And we have found for so many couples who are listening and those in the one family, it’s a jumping off point, because we are bringing up topics in different ways. I mean, everything from, you know, talking about infidelity or affairs for some folks to oral sex on the other side to budgeting to living trusts and wills.
I mean, we talked about all praying together in the podcast has become that place where folks in couples have been able to strengthen their emotional intimacy, because I hear Alisa DiLorenzo and Tony having a conversation. And yes, we have our episode notes, and we know what’s going on.
And yet, there are things that Elise and I learned, I would say, on a weekly basis about one another because it just comes up and in our memories get jogged and it’s sort of like, Oh, I didn’t realize that. That was important to you. Oh, okay. Let me let me, you know, store this away. Let’s discuss this a little bit here on the podcast. And I really, truly believe many of our couples who are listening, have that opportunity to as a launching pad by listening to those episodes.
[Jon Dabach] 13:00
Yeah, yeah, I would agree with you. You guys are so open. Like it just complete open books about so much that it’s, it’s kind of cathartic just to listen to it. So speaking of which, did you find that there was this hurdle of, you know, shyness, or bashfulness, that you guys had to get over when you were starting? Well,
I think it took us what 10 takes to get the first episode. Now
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 13:26
I did a video on us. And we’re doing the first episode. Because the first episode is called 60 days of sex. So that just kind of laid out that journey. But in between episodes, three and four, we got a I got a Facebook message from a gal that I’ve gone to high school with. And she was very much like, well, who are you?
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 13:46
Why should we listen to you? You know, I knew you when you were 15. What are you talking about marriage now for? And we made a commitment in Episode Four that we will always be open, honest and transparent with the one family. And yes, have we had really uncomfortable conversations?
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 14:02
Absolutely. Fights on the air. Yeah. Have we talked about things that most people won’t? Yeah. And the reason we’ve done that, and, you know, because it builds our marriage. And we know that if we can impact one, man, I mean, that’s where the name comes from. It’s one external marriage if our mission is to impact one marriage. So if by us having a conversation and getting over ourselves, if that unlocks one other couple, then we’ve done exactly what we set out to do.
[Jon Dabach] 14:30
Yeah, it’s a beautiful message to just saving one marriage. I think you’re right. I think Dr. Harville Hendricks always kind of talked about marriage you know, couples work is saving the world one couple at a time. Yeah. It’s a beautiful idea because it’s true. I mean, I I’ve owned other businesses, but nothing feels quite as satisfying as when you see two people who come in fighting one time and then you know, a few weeks later, just they’re like, oh, things are and they have that really igniting spark in their eyes.
[Jon Dabach] 15:02
And it’s like, oh, that’s going to affect their kids, it’s going to affect their business. It’s going to affect every, it’s going to affect the person they buy groceries from at the store, and they’ll give them a little bit of an extra smile.
[Jon Dabach] 15:11
And it really does that kind of just has this crazy ripple effect. Talk to me about the book, the six pillars of intimacy, where did it come from? How did you guys decide to write a book? Congrats on it being such an amazing smash success as a best seller? By the way?
Thank you. Yeah, this is our sixth book. In so we talked about some of these concepts in our first book, which was written 12 years ago, Alon. And we came up to a point where we were talking a lot about sexual intimacy, and we’d be we get asked to talk about it. And it was in August of 2020, that we were asked to speak at our church’s marriage one day event.
And I remember looking at Alisa, and just going like, we’ve talked about sex before, to this group, like we’ve done it a number of times, there’s much more. And at that point in time, that’s when Alisa and I just sat down and said, you know what, there is more, there’s much more to marriage than just sexual intimacy. And so we spoke at that, at that event. And that’s where the Six Pillars of intimacy came from. We didn’t call it that at the event, it’s what was shown on a slide that people begin to see.
And we have these six pillars, and we just had a triangle as you know, the roof top. And it sparked in right after that conversation that we had on stage with our all of our folks here from church. They just weren’t like, oh my gosh, I need to strengthen my spiritual intimacy, oh, my gosh, you opened up some things for me that I need to look at, or we need to look at in our financial intimacy.
And we’re like, oh, those, they kept saying these pillars, these pillars, and that’s where the Six Pillars of intimacy came from. And we just dove in from there started talking a lot about it on the podcast. And then in November 21, is when we released the book. And yes, it’s been fantastic.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 17:10
Yeah, because it was really, you know, intimacy and sex have been so closely intertwined, in linguistically
[Jon Dabach] 17:18
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 17:20
What is the word that I’m looking for? So to really expand that for married couples, and just say, you know, I mentioned the book, that you can’t be having sex 24 hours a day, right?
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 17:31
So how can we develop that closest connection, that intimacy and all of these other areas of your marriage, so that, yes, you have great sexual intimacy, but you feel strong in every area, or you have the vocabulary to address the areas where you feel weak, where you have cracks? Yes.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 17:48
And I think that’s been just as we’ve seen over the last, I guess, it’s a year and a half now that this books been out, people being able to identify what’s happening in their marriage, and then because they have the language, are then empowered to go and take action on it.
[Jon Dabach] 18:03
Yeah. Do you find that that one of the pillars comes up more than the others?
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 18:08
In terms of strength or when
[Jon Dabach] 18:11
You’re talking to people like we need help with this pillar?
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 18:15
I, I know, just because I asked for which pillar of my coaching application I asked for which pillars people want to work on first. And I will say the emotional intimacy, emotional intimacy and sexual intimacy. So the two that anchor are probably the two that come up most common.
[Jon Dabach] 18:31
Yeah. When you’re dealing with men and women, do you? Is there a, is there a pattern of what you see in terms of what men let’s tackle them one at a time, like in terms of men with sexual intimacy, what the kind of main complaint or hurdle is that you see versus women?
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 18:48
I think for a lot of men, what I hear very often is that there’s a lack of sexual intimacy in the marriage, and they don’t know how to they don’t know where that’s going to write, or how to get that back.
Can we expand on that though, because when it comes to sexual intimacy, we expand on that, John, it’s not just sexual intercourse? It’s everything from initiating to foreplay to sexual intercourse. That’s one of the big things we wanted to bring to the table is that your sexual intimacy isn’t only having sex.
It’s how are you initiating? How are you romancing how are you? What is foreplay even look like for the two of you? Because we know many, in the one family where sexual intercourse is actually it hurts. There’s medical issues going on. And so helping them to say, Okay, can we still initiate and how foreplay can we still be sexually intimate without intercourse has helped I think a lot of those.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 19:48
But most people don’t have that expanded definition. Unless they read the book or listen to the podcast. Most you know, a lot of people will come and say, hey, we’re not having sex. Yeah, I’m in a sexless marriage. Or, you know, it didn’t Right. And so that’s where a lot of men come from and even, I’ve literally was just working with a couple this week. And they, they’ve been sexless for the last 10 years.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 20:09
And due to menopause, other health issues, whatnot. And she’s just now be through the work that we’re doing getting this vision of, oh, we can be sexually intimate. Because if I can expand my definition, there are other things that I can do to be sexually intimate with my husband, while it might not be intercourse, which is painful, but it will meet the needs on both sides. Sure.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 20:31
So getting into this place of saying what does closeness and connection look like in any one of these areas? And the husband is just sitting there doing the session? I could just see him he’s like, did she just say what I think she said, like, like, there’s light at the end of the tunnel. I’m almost afraid to move right now. But it was it was
[Jon Dabach] 20:47
What is what is it that men are missing when they hear that? Because I think look, I think it was it was somewhat of an obvious answer. But I wanted to confirm because I don’t work as much on the sexual side as other therapists or couples counselors.
[Jon Dabach] 21:00
So it’s, it’s kind of interesting for me to talk about, it’s not one of my big specialties. So but the assumption is that men want more generally speaking, there’s always exceptions, there’s always a higher driving possibility of being flipped. But in those instances, what are they missing out on?
[Jon Dabach] 21:14
And, and in terms of how to talk about it to their spouse? And what is what is missing for the wife in that situation where she doesn’t want to engage?
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 21:24
Well, a lot of times, there has been a breakdown in the emotional intimacy. There are hurts, there are resentments. There have been wounds that have happened in the marriage, and that could, you know, wounds, kind of like a capital W just kind of encompasses everything, where they haven’t worked through their stuff. And for a lot of women to be sexually intimate. She’s got to feel emotionally close, right?
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 21:49
And so if she’s not, he’s just like, hey, baby, let’s have sex. And she’s like, you know, I don’t like you right now. She may be a warm body with a bag, but she’s not a willing participant. And so, working with a lot of the couples that I you know, a lot of the work that I do is getting couples to understand, hey, what do we still need to work through? What are those hurts? What do we need to let go?
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 22:10
Where does forgiveness need to come into this? What do we need to heal from, so that we can get to a place where our emotional intimacy feels really strong? And we both desire sexual intimacy that it’s no longer weaponized? That given you sex, because I don’t like that type of thing.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 22:24
But I want sex. I’m not going to I’m not going to talk to you until we have sex. And so get everybody off of that chicken and egg.
[Jon Dabach] 22:29
Yeah, yeah, it shouldn’t be used as bait or punishment. I agree. You talk about healing these wounds? Do you have a structured kind of approach? Or does it come along with just increasing emotional intimacy to kind of heal those wounds in a relationship?
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 22:45
It really depends on yeah, sometimes the healing and I’m not a trauma specialist. So if I recognize that somebody is talking about, you know, sexual abuse or past trauma, I think I will actually refer people to find specialists, because I recognize that I’m not going to overstep. Yeah.
[Jon Dabach] 23:04
But I think that’s probably a minority of couple’s words like trauma with a big T. Yeah,
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 23:10
Correct. But I like to make that clear, you know, as, as the emotional intimacy builds, as couples start to identify both what they’re what both of their roles are. Because the reality is, is that every dynamic in a marriage, whether it’s success in this, whether its lack of communication, is a result of both his and her actions. And so identifying when that go, right did? What do I what do I need to forgive myself?
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 23:34
Or what do I need to forgive others for what are the scripts I spent a lot of time working with my clients on the scripts are the narratives that they have rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed to the point that it’s true. And while might have been true a minute ago, for a minute, 20 years ago, let’s get the new narrative, and then work through bringing in different accountability exercises and whatnot to really strengthen them across all the pillars.
[Jon Dabach] 23:59
That’s yeah, that’s a great approach. I love the idea of scripting and writing your narrative. There’s a there’s a lot of talk of that in the psychological circles. And there’s even like new programs where you learn how to write your narrative on an individual level, because it is so impactful for people even and you know, the kind of the fun part for me, I’ve always loved writing.
[Jon Dabach] 24:18
But oftentimes you find people who, who are resistant because they don’t like the idea of writing. And then when they start writing, they’re like, Oh, this is actually pretty cathartic. And then they start journaling. And it becomes a great tool, a great asset, and they’re kind of Arsenal on how to kind of move through life. Yeah, for sure. What’s your first if you had a question to kind of ask someone to kind of get a pulse read on how their relationship is? Do you have like a standard go to? This is the first thing I asked?
Oh, that’s a great question. And it’s interesting because we’ve been podcasting for so long. Usually, we’re just on the receiving end of information. Yeah. So I, I do have an application when I start working So I walk into every coaching session knowing that I’m trying to think the last time that we had to ask someone,
[Jon Dabach] 25:05
Well, on your application, is there a part of it where you go straight to like, I wanted to answer this first? Because that’s what that’s where like, Oh, yeah.
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 25:14
What’s the situation that prompted you to reach out for coaching?
[Jon Dabach] 25:17
Yeah. Yeah, the voluntary kind of this is this is what’s going on? And yeah, that’s the way we usually start do it’s like, what are your goals? Why are you here? For sure, and
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 25:27
Why now? Because, I mean, I’m sure you know, and you’ll probably see it with your clients, you know, couples will wait years. Yeah, often to get to that almost breaking point. And so, you know, typically, I will ask you, why am I here now?
[Jon Dabach] 25:42
Yeah. That’s why some of my favorite couples are the premarital ones, where it’s like, it’s pretty good, but we want it better. And I’m like, this is a cakewalk. It’s like I get to give you the good advice before the chaos, you know, more of those because it’s, it’s, you see the impact that it has for the next three, four decades to?
[Jon Dabach] 26:03
Absolutely. Well, where could someone I assume on your website is probably the best place for them to get the Six Pillars of intimacy, the book and other resources or reach out with you for coaching? One extraordinary marriage.com? Is that right?
[Alisa DiLorenzo] 26:16
That is that is it, John? Yeah, everything they need is right there for them to check out. Learn more about us.
[Jon Dabach] 26:22
Yeah. And they can find your podcast there. Do you want to kind of give any other resources on how people can reach out and find you and kind of become part of the one family?
Wow. Oh, really?
[Jon Dabach] 26:36
Potentialized. So it’s easy. So
I mean, if you’re listening to if you’re listening to this podcast on whatever your favorite podcast app is, you know, search one extraordinary marriage show. There you go. That you’ll find us quickly and easily.
[Jon Dabach] 26:49
Yeah, well, I just wanted to have you guys on because you are kind of a unique animal. You’re a married couple that’s open. That’s been podcasting for a while that’s consistent. That’s, you know, very, like no holds barred. This is where it’s at. And it’s kind of a breath of fresh air. So it’s, uh, you know, like when I feel like I want to be kind of a polite voyeur. It’s definitely a show. I know I can turn on and go okay, let’s see what’s going on with other people.
Thank you so much. Yeah, we are truly honored and blessed. By hearing that it’s, it’s what we’re what we’re all about being open, honest and transparent and changing marriages.
[Jon Dabach] 27:27
If you’re interested in learning how to get the absolute most out of your romantic relationships, then you’re in luck because I have put together a free workshop or masterclass if you will, about three secrets that people in happy relationships have discovered.
[Jon Dabach] 27:44
You can view the workshop and mrspirituality.com/threesecrets again, it’s completely free. Just go there and watch it. It’ll help you on your journey give you some wisdoms and things to think about. The website again is mrspirituality.com/threesecrets. That’s mrspirituality.com/the Number three, the word secrets. It’s all yours. Enjoy.